On this week’s episode of Hacks, Deborah Vance (Jean Smart) finally achieves her dream of hosting a network late-night show. It’s an outcome that the
On this week’s episode of Hacks, Deborah Vance (Jean Smart) finally achieves her dream of hosting a network late-night show. It’s an outcome that the series has been building toward for some three and a half seasons, and when it does finally happen, it’s a stunning moment—despite the fact that Deborah is still at bitter odds with her head writer and closest collaborator, Ava Daniels (Hannah Einbinder).
The lively between Deborah and Ava—and therefore Smart and Einbinder—has been the key to Hacks’ huge success throughout its run. Sometimes they’re warm; sometimes they’re feuding—like at the start of this season, after Ava has blackmailed Deborah into giving her the head writer job. Either way, they’re connected deeply through their comedy and creativity. As Einbinder tells Vanity Fair, her collaboration with Smart is similarly deep—though much healthier.
Einbinder was a rising star comedian who had never acted in a TV show when she was cast opposite Smart, an acting legend, in Hacks. Over the course of the series, she’s grown more comfortable in the demanding role, which delicately balances bold humor with more dramatic, emotional storylines. Here, she talks to Little Gold Men about how Ava has changed, a budding recent throuple relationship, and why she’s been using her spotlight to speak on pressing political issues.
Vanity Fair: Ava has blackmailed Deborah into making her head writer at the start of the season. Did that feel like a turning point for Ava, having done something bad to get her job?
Hannah Einbinder: Ava has had her “enough is enough” moment many times, but this did feel like a step further. Emotionally, I don’t really think that Ava has turned bad, you know what I mean? She is still herself. She still is a fierce lover who is trying to be a good person. That feels like kind of her mission statement: trying, not always executing in the best way. But her hand has been forced, and she’s kind of been given no choice. It is a turning point, but I do think that she herself remains dedicated to her internal value system.
How has playing Ava changed for you, now that you’re four seasons in?
I think spending time with her has deepened my ability to play her. And I also think that she herself has changed over the course of the show. She has grown a lot.
Look, I am not unaware of the fact that a lot of people had problems with Ava season one. I remember the time when she was not as beloved as she is now, which—I’m so glad that she is now. But I think some of that was perhaps warranted. She had a little bit of entitlement to her and could be bratty. She, like Deborah said, got plucked off the internet at 24 and just went right to the top. She learned about cutting her teeth, going on the road with Deborah, working with a stand-up comedian, which is a tough existence. It’s a really difficult medium. She learned a lot from that. I think Deborah learned a lot from her. I think that both of these characters have had a sort of covert evolution, if you will. My ability to play her has deepened, but also I think I’m watching her so beautifully evolve. And that’s a credit to the writing.
You mention being aware of how audiences saw her in the early seasons and how everyone didn’t like her. How do you take in that feedback?
I wouldn’t say everyone! I think some people liked her. No, I’m kidding. I mean, I have a phone and it’s connected to the internet, so I do see some shit, you know what I mean? I’m super open. I’m actually interested in the fan’s perspective. I think they know these characters very well as well. They know them almost as well, if not sometimes as well, as we do. I do definitely think that early on, when I was given dialogue where Ava’s saying things where you’re just kind of cringing, I tried to soften or imbue them with various words or an affect that begs for a little bit of sympathy. In those ways, I was able to make a character that, perhaps played a different way, would’ve been far rougher around the edges, in a way that was slightly, slightly softer.
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